Dr. Kiesha King: The education revolution needs Internet access

Dr. Kesha King. You’re an educator. And and yet you find yourself now at, you know, one of the largest technology companies in the world, you know, doing work across the country.

Like, how did you get to where Yeah. What what what does that journey look like for someone to be in the classroom and working in schools? Yeah, it’s definitely so different.

I feel like just yesterday I was in a classroom with kiddos, right? And it’s funny. I remember when I first got here, I used to I was still calling them my babies.

I’m like, you know, what are we going to do with the babies? What happens? You know, and I’m like, okay, there’s there’s big babies and small babies we’re talking about here.

So I I came from this space of being a teacher. Went into kind of leading a virtual school from a principal perspective and then moved into curriculum and technology innovation and what that looks like from an integrative like model within schools. And then transition from there and building virtual schools into this idea of, well, I can build virtual schools anywhere, but what does that look like from a strategic perspective, designing it from like a county agency or a community college or a state education agency?

And so I started my own company and started building all over the country. And then T-Mobile, I was one of T-Mobile’s first education customers in school in the school district I was in. We had around 70,000 kiddos.

Very high percentage of free and reduced lunch in that district. And which district was this? It was Aldi and ISD out of Houston.

Yeah. And so I was one of T-Mobile’s first customers there. Because for virtual school, obviously you’re going to have gaps and access, right?

So kiddos are going home. We’re building all these amazing virtual courses. But they didn’t have devices and they didn’t have connectivity and so I worked with T-Mobile to provide that for them and T-Mobile said hey a few years later they said hey can you come and help us build an education segment and so I came on board to start working with what they were just launching the empower ed a award program so I came in and kind of worked on building up that program to capacity and then I think we had connected maybe around 20,000 students at the time and we just knew that there was this huge trajectory for growth in the education market, right?

It was it was just necessary. You know, access is something akin to, you know, having electricity. It is it’s at the core of making sure you have everything you need.

When we talk about innovation, none of it could happen if no one has access to the internet and tools, resources that they need. And so when I got to about 2.6 six million students connected with the team of wolf for government team. We we inherited sprint.

So we had this you know this great merging of teams coming together and Sprint’s education team was already doing the 1 million project which they were doing phenomenal work over there with Dan Cox and his team. And so we really just came together as this unique organization with this highly philanthropic background, but this core industrydriving kind of desire and brought all that together and launched Project 10 million, which was a $10.7 billion commitment to bridge the digital divide. And today we’re over 6 million kiddos connected in over 4,000 school districts.

So, we’ve come a long way. We still have a long way to go. I think looking at you know a lot of the investments that T-Mobile has made in respect to the network and you know thinking about all the research and policy and all the things that have taken place to make sure that we’re being innovative but we’re also thinking about the infrastructure that’s required to support that innovation.

I think that part’s been really important. And so I’m proud to just be a part of a part of the conversation and a part of you know the change agent in in making things happen across the country. Yeah.

And just to put like just sort of a rough timeline on this. I mean you you were standing up online learning at one of the biggest districts in the country. Yeah.

Before this is way before the pandemic. This is like this is this is literally as education is starting to figure out oh wait we can actually do online learning. This is like Oh, yeah.

Years before, years before. And I would probably say maybe around 2008 or 2009, you know, I just fell into this love for technology. And Sony put PlayStation ones for digital literacy in my classroom, you know, and it just it just spurred this spark of of innovation in me to say, what else is possible, right?

How else can I expand this learning journey? How how can we think outside of the box with education? And I’ve been there ever since.

I’m still there today. You know, I live in in this organization from a work perspective, but I have this really unique opportunity to build strategy here, right? Like how do we think about leveraging 5G technologies and within the realm of education and government and digital equity and all these other kind of buzzwords that we talk about so much.

Yeah. How does it feel? I mean because this is not your first rodeo and you know I was at the ASU GSV summit.

You’ve been How many times have you been? Is it like was that was number two? Yeah, I’ve been I’ve been there a few times.

I have a a unique opportunity to go and speak and meet my friends like you. So yeah, it’s been it’s been fun. That’s just one of the forums though, right?

Like there’s so many. How do you prioritize them? Well, that’s that’s a yeah, how long do you have?

But but my I guess I guess where I’m getting at is, you know, this year at the ASG summit, it was it was much as old than the the ASG AI summit. You know, that AI was Yeah. Almost every conversation in some way was touching artificial and I missed the AI show this year.

I really wanted to go. I had another commitment so I couldn’t make it. I had to get my daughter ready for prom.

I was like I can’t miss doing it has to come first. Oh, see you were in you were in San Diego last week. No, I was supposed to be in San Diego last week.

I was in Houston. Okay. And then I ended up in Boston because I was asked to speak at Harvard at their innovation summit.

Oh, that’s cool. Okay. Yeah, it was nice.

Then I flew back home. But I’m sure this is the I mean I’m sure at most the education conferences and summits you’ve attended over the past let’s say two years it’s felt like very aheavy and like bring us back to sort of this this moment where the internet is starting to mature. You know video and like bandwidth is unlocking the ability to do sort of synchronous video and certainly asynchronous video.

Was there sort of a similar level of exuberance? Was it sort of like every conversation was about online learning or the internet or like did it have that zeitgeist feeling that like AI has right now? I think so.

But I think that it just rapidly, you know, AI, you can talk about AI every day within a different framework and still be talking about AI, right? And I think that’s the thing that’s so exciting about it. It feels like it’s just never ending.

Like we will probably be in the throws of AI for, you know, as long as we can think. I think at that time, you know, around, you know, between 2010 2012, we’re looking at -ate and modernization. We’re thinking about how do we create, you know, a 99.9% Wi-Fi infrastructure across K-12 school districts all over the country, right?

So, the conversations were very different. But I think as we started to address those things and figure out exactly how, right? Like, oh, we can’t do the access points like this, we actually need to think about, you know, how do how do we run fiber and what does that look like and how do we make sure we have the bandwidth and capacity required to manage all these kids and what happens on, you know, Thursdays when they’re all testing at the same time or they all get on teacher tube at the same whatever it is, right?

So we’re kind of overcoming those things and then we moved into the next phase and I think online learning was kind of this all the rave for a long time but I think it was so it felt so contradictory to teaching right to like in-person teaching. So there was this challenge about it that said like okay well you know if if we’re going to build online learning then what does that mean for our teachers right like and are we trying to replace teachers what does that you know what does that look like and there’s a saying I used to always say you know curriculum is the foundation pedigogy is the method and technology is the support and I would say this you know I kind of would open with that all the time because I never wanted teachers or people even people outside of education from a private public partnership perspective to think that there was any confusion around curriculum and teaching and learning being at the core right of how we work with our kiddos. And that that was a big part of the framework and the conversation just continue to evolve.

Now, I think we’re seeing the technology evolve really quickly, but we’re seeing on a higher level the conversation stay consistent, and that’s where AI has consistently been at the core of our conversations for an extended period of time now. And that honestly, I mean, aiEDU was one of the first conversations that I had, one of the first like uniform organizations that said this is what we want to talk about and this is what we want to address. And it wasn’t peacemail like there was 15 different priorities.

It was this is the priority. This is the focus and this is the conversation, right? Yes, we’re going to grow with it and evolve with it, but this is essentially where we want to focus.

And I admire that. I mean, again, you’ve seen it over the years. I’ve seen it over the years, but I’ve also seen it metriculate really quickly.

And I I think sitting in this space is really really important. Yeah, we have I mean, we we we kind of did call it. Yeah.

And so, you know, I I will I’m increasingly just sort of, you know, trying not to be sort of like a you know, almost like a passive aggressively humble, you know, like no, like we really like like we really had like we we we got one thing really right. But I think the other like you actually get to something that that we that I am obsessed with. Speaking of what we’re obsessed with so at not just ASU GSV but really like all the AI and education summits most of the focus is on the tools right like 95% of the conversations that were happening in San Diego last week were how do we use AI to improve teaching and learning to help teachers to help them save time support tutoring etc etc many many different sort of like flavors of this and we don’t offer a tool.

And I actually had a little bit of FOMO, I’ll be honest, because, you know, it’s hard to go into all these like there was like a few fun receptions. They’re like, "Oh, we’re we’re we’re launching a new fund specifically for people building AI tools." And I’m like, "Oh, well, that’s really not us." yeah. And so there was a little bit of FOMO there, but at the same time, I I feel confident that we really stand out because our our whole push is that there’s like two sides of this equation.

There’s like the technology side, which is important if not critical. But the much harder work isn’t the human side of the equation. You know, there’s like there’s there’s 13,000 school districts.

Mhm. There’s like almost 4 million teachers, 50 million plus kids. Yeah.

100 Million parents, 50 state agencies, and it’s all decentralized, and it’s fragmented, and it’s not Yeah. Interconnected. There’s no there’s a lot less collaboration than than what you you’d hope would exist.

And so it’s we are we have a very big complicated maybe one of the most complicated human systems in the US maybe in the world. And we are trying to help it change and evolve at a timeline that feels unique. I think you know the internet happened gradually enough like we all remember the first time we had dialup and then it was like several years later and then you had slightly faster internet and then you know suddenly you had computer labs.

I mean what’s happening now is you have you know on a monthly basis you know breakthrough developments in technology immediate proliferation of access to teachers and students. Yeah. And so there’s there’s this question of how are we going to help this very complicated system adapt?

And and to me what you’re sort of getting at is like there’s the big idea of how do we how do we use technology to as you say support the work of education which is really a way of saying educators. Yeah. But then how do educators need to adapt teaching and learning given given that AI is not just going to be used to support educators.

Is going to be used to support every other domain in the in the economy. Yeah. All the career pathways are going to start incorporating AI and potentially shifting quite significantly like that like people people in Silicon Valley are just like it’s a it’s it’s a foregone conclusion that AI is going to like massively disrupt computer science for example.

So yeah, I mean like double clicking on this idea of how do we center teachers? What are some of the strategies because you you mean you’ve you spent a long time, you know, like at in district leadership, so you kind of know what it’s like to be on the other side of the equation and now you’re sort of you’re not really a vendor because you’re actually giving a lot of resources for free to schools. So, I’m sure it’s like a different type of meeting than like people that are hustling and trying to sell stuff, but like what does it look like to engage educators and ed leaders in a way that’s really authentic and that doesn’t just make them feel like you’re sort of presupposing the technology is sort of going to be the savior for all of their problems.

Well, I mean it it in any conversation, it starts with listening, right? I mean, we know that private public private public partnership is at the core of the type of growth that we need to see in the education world. It can’t happen single-handedly on either side of the house.

And so, you know, just being open to listen to what schools need, understanding that they all have different needs and different leaders have different perspectives on how to solve those needs. I think from an industry, you know, framework, we have to be open to just really sitting down with school district leaders. And a lot of times I I I go in and I just say, well, like, can can we just sit down and whiteboard this out?

Like, can we bring in your leadership team and just talk about it as a problem solution framework or as a here’s the direction we want to go, here’s the end goal. Let’s do some backwards planning and talk about what that can look like, right? Cuz in most places, 99.9% of schools have like the infrastructure on campus in order to support, you know, Wi-Fi and those type of things.

But when you start getting into esports, you start getting into immersive learning, you know, drone technology, other types of, AI development that depends on low latency. Now you can have bigger conversations around do you really have the infrastructure that you need to drive the innovation that you’re hoping to drive. Some school districts that’s a priority.

Other school districts it’s not necessarily priority but they’re open to the conversation to say like what what exactly do we need? Is there a certain subset of students that like deserves to have access to this? You know, I love what you mentioned earlier because you you made me think about this example I use from Sir Ken Robinson sometimes when I’m talking and it’s just this idea that, you know, there’s this time you had to, you know, light a mash and light something to make the lights come on, right?

And then and then you get to this point where you got to flip a switch and now you walk in the room and the lights just know you’re there, right? And that’s what’s happening with this world of AI. We’re sitting and we’re preparing and we’re thinking about how to introduce it to our to our students and our teachers and the folks around us not realizing that like it’s already come on right like now we have to really try and think about how we create the structures and the and I had a word for it before and I was talking about it when I was on stage at South by Southwest edu but it’s it’s What does a structure look like for education?

How do we create the same way that we sit down and we do our curriculum writing in summer and we do all the alignments and we think about how we want to integrate this into, you know, the world of our kids and get them test ready, right? Like and world ready and and workforce ready. How do we do that same type of thing with AI in a way that creates structure that can eliminate some of the fear, right?

And that’s another component of this that I think aiEDU really like hits the nail on the head with and you’ve been kind of opening the doors to that for so long and saying right like yes all these technologies are amazing and the direction of AI and the growth it’s going to happen whether we want it to happen or not right but how do we align that from a policy perspective how do we create some structures and standards right for this new technology that allows us to integrate it in a way that’s safe that protects our kiddos’s privacy that, you know, make sure that they they they have the literacy, the AI literacy needed in order to use the technology. You know, that’s really been a lot of the focus for me, right, in the in this transition, like how can I when I’m sitting across from school district leaders really listen intently in a way that says, right, I understand what it is, you know, and there’s a baseline there. I want to contribute what I know and create a joint baseline and then how do we now go build a priority structure that can allow your kiddos to experience the best brightest future that’s available to them and your teachers right I love your point on like how do you enable teachers because you know you can put the devices and the technology and the resources there all day long but unless you create again the standards and framework for the requirement for use and the requirement environment for integration and make sure that they’re upskilling in a way that lets them do that, you’re going to be in a difficult position, right?

So, yeah, really great question. But I mean I mean what I’m hearing is this this idea that you’re not entering the conversations with this assumption that like you know what’s best. You’re really engaging the system leaders to like like they need to chart the strategy.

You have a vested interest in their success, but you also recognize that there’s this is like super multi-dimensional and there’s a lot of different like interconnected pieces that you’re not necessarily going to be able to help them with. But part of it is I think there is value in sort of like sketching it out cuz all the things that you just described you basically described the you know core components of an AI readiness strategy right it’s like it’s not just about what tool it’s like what tool that fits within your procurement guidelines and if you don’t have guidelines well you need to have a plan to deal with the fact that there are no guidelines and you need to have alignment with your goals on and requirements on privacy and and student safety and but but I wonder if you have one of the easier jobs in this space because the the the necessary condition to all of that is access to the internet. Yeah.

Right. And so yeah, for sure. And can you tell me about I mean I sometimes I worry that there’s all this exuberance about AI and coming out of co there’s now this assumption that we’ve solved the problem of of access of broadband access and I agree.

I’m curious for your take on that like it like how how close are we and and how far are we? We’re far I mean we still have a long way to go. You know, we have millions and millions of folks all over the country that still lack that core internet access, right?

We we saw the end of the ACP. We saw the end of What’s the ACP? The affordable connectivity plan.

Got it. Right. So that was you know multi-million dollar project to provide connectivity to families and communities that had the need.

We saw the end of that last spring. We saw the end of the emergency connectivity plan, right? That was, you know, billions of dollars set aside to make sure that kiddos had connectivity outside of the traditional school day.

That was initiated through the pandemic. We saw NTIA come in and say, you know what, we’re going to dedicate $1.25 billion for this competitive digital equity grant and all these other things. Some of those things are, you know, paused now until, you know, we sort through some things from a a policy perspective.

We saw, you know, we see all these government programs kind of come and go. And I think I think we’ve seen this over time, right? We’ve seen this over the years, these different programs.

And I think unfortunately underserved populations are accustomed to programs coming and going, right? You know, they for a year we have this and then we don’t have it anymore and a year we have that. And what I love is that particular to project 10 million and I I can’t speak for any other company, but particularly project 10 million allows eligible student households to qualify for a nocost hotspot in 5 years of connectivity.

Previously 100 gigs per year, now 200 gigs per year as of this last year. And I think it’s exciting to see Teemo will not only continue that commitment into its fifth year now, but also double down, right? And and that’s been really exciting particularly where it comes in and says this is going to be directly to the consumer and the family, right?

So the family can just go to the website, put in their information without the credit checks and the hassles and all that and it’s just shipped directly to the home. That’s a really special situation that you know a lot of times you’re having this conversation and you’re saying I know for me I talk with other vendors I talk with private entities I talk with all types of folks even conferences and I say is there any way you can tell the people coming to your conference about project 10 million and a lot of times you know the response that I get is well can you pay us for us to tell them about this right like and I I totally understand that. But I think there is an element that says right for the folks that I’m hoping to serve, I want to make sure they have the absolute best value for what I’m providing for them.

And a part of that value is for me to put every program and resource in front of them that’s going to come in and do great work. Yes, it is a K through 12 program, but guess what? If they’re a senior in high school, that’s still five years of connectivity that can support their post-secary education.

Like, you know, to me, I think it’s a no-brainer. You know, Johnny sitting in at the front of, you know, his mom’s job waiting for her to get off work can now continue searching or can Google a random thought about how to fix his bike. Those are the things that make kiddos smarter, right?

And and it’s something that for me it just means so much and I think we miss we miss the mark on opportunities to continue to share when an organization decides to do something this big. It’s massive, right? There’s no red tape.

There’s nothing else involved. It’s just a massive commitment and it was a massive undertaking to build. But I think me leading this part of T-Mobile’s work allows me to sit in spaces with you know it almost feels like no skin in the game other than saying I want us all to do really really good work right like what incentivizes you and let’s figure out how we build around that and I can do it purely and I can do it from a framework of the expertise that I built over the last two decades And I’m excited to keep doing it, Alex.

Like I really am. I think there’s an element of humility that has to come in when you are sitting across from someone and you say, "I just want to hear you, right? Like I’m doing this big stuff and we got these things going on, but maybe that’s not really the answer to what like to what you actually need.

Maybe it’s a mindset. Maybe it’s a maybe maybe you don’t know how to connect the dots between this great offer and the next steps that you’re hoping to go. Like how do we how do we figure that part out?

Right? And so that that’s the piece I think that I want to continue to really just hone in on. Are we exacerbating some of our problems because we’re afraid that there’s no structure around what’s new and what’s innovative?

I wonder that. Right. I know that there’s fear because AI is there.

You know, I think there was a Gallup poll that found that maybe 28% of students reported that their schools allowed AI use. Now, obviously, this is from students, right? But why why the fear, right?

And most of the time, if I if I were to ask you right now, Alex, if you had access to all the information in the world, all the information, you could ask any question you want, what would you do with it? You could do one thing, what would you do? That’s a good question.

I mean, I think I’d do what I have been doing, which is learning about I mean, I’ve had the opportunity through, and this is I I’ll specifically credit YouTube for this. Yeah, you know, I can go now go and be teleported into classrooms at Stanford and MIT, hear from the world’s leading astrophysicists. You know, I’m not a I’m not a STEM person, but I was always interested in space and, you know, I wouldn’t have made it would be it was really inaccessible for me to go to like the you know, the physics building at OSU.

I don’t have to deal with any of that you know embarrassment. I’m I’m sitting at home. I’m be going on a bike ride and I’m like listening to stuff and and it’s I totally I I totally see where you’re going with this in terms of the this has the opportunity to be such a gift.

It does to students and but but is it Yeah. I for for what it’s worth I credit to you because while you were one of the first people to take a meeting with me and like I just want to it was you know it like like now I feel like I’m constantly you know on the other side of it where I have to feel really bad about not having time to take all the meetings that I really would love to take. I get a lot of flat because I have that personality.

By the way, I take meetings with students. Everybody just say it’s like I and and it’s but you you took a meeting with me before most people really were were I mean for most people I think the AI education project just was might as well have been like the crypto education project or the metaverse education project. It was sort of just you know another hype hype technology.

You know there’s not substance here. So you saw it, you you I I mean you and I immediately connected and I understand why, right? Because you have this unique vantage point of like the past technology revolution, the the most recent one, right, in terms of like mobile and internet.

But the other thing I’ll credit you for is even though we totally I think we really connected and you know you were always super responsive and we had lots of calls, lots and lots of calls and at the end of the day you know you didn’t give us a grant and it wasn’t because you were you believed that what we were doing was important but you you were like we are really focused like we’re really focused on laser this like on access and and I remember saying like oh but this could be a way to like promote and raise awareness and you know I think it’s hard to sometimes acknowledge that like you know when when funders are not when when you don’t perfectly align with a funders’s party but I also have like respect because on the corporate side it’s you know like sometimes philanthropy is seen as just a you know a marketing strategy so true and when you were talking about those sort of being those communities I think I’m sure it takes a lot of time to build the trust that you’re not is coming in to like do a press release and capture some videos that T-Mobile’s going to post on Twitter and disappear. Yeah. And disappear.

Yeah, you’re so right. You know, we the hotspots could have been done in a way where they just became a a paper weight. You know, all that funding, all the things that were cancelled, I mean, the equipment’s still out there.

It’s still out there. They’re still sitting, you know, on that kiddo’s dresser with no connectivity to it if they were a part of the emergency connectivity project or potentially a part of ACP, right? They’re they’re those things are still there.

I want to go back to the question I asked you because there’s a way that you didn’t answer. You didn’t say, right, if you had access to all the technology in the world, you would plagiarize, right? And when we think about the fear that’s happening in the K-12 world and just in education in general, I think the fear is around this idea of just copyright copyrightiting.

Now, of course, there’s some privacy and some other, you know, things that are there, but it’s really not it’s really not understanding the expansive opportunity to unlock the minds of people who are leveraging this these new technologies. It’s really just a a lack of core understanding and literacy around the exponential potential of having access to all the information in the world, right? Because it’s a very it’s a very minor way to think to say, "Oh, well, you know, I I just don’t want them to cheat on their their paper.

I don’t want them to, you know, go and write something that they didn’t write. I don’t want to Right. It’s it’s a there’s so much opportunity in creating a broader perspective around AI and immersive technology that I think we miss because of the fear.

And that’s why in my opinion the work that aiEDU is so critically important because if you can create some standards and you can influence policy and you can create some infrastructure around these new technologies, you start to break away at the fear that keeps them from infiltrating the areas where they actually need to go. Places that kiddos do not have the opportunity to see or leverage these technologies at all. Right.

And that’s what’s so special about the work that you do and so many others. I’m going to tell you, it wasn’t easy for me having all these amazing ideas come forward and say, you know, well, well, Dr. King, is can is there a sponsorship? Is there some opportunity to fund this?

Can you do these things? And knowing that as an organization there is this laser focus on $10.7 billion of funding going into access and equity, right? But knowing that made it a lot easier.

Knowing that told me no matter what we’re doing, we’re going to influence your program and your success, right? Because we’re providing the access. And that’s been a really beautiful journey for over 6 million students and counting.

It’s been a beautiful journey. Well, and it’s so tied to when you talk about cheating, you know, I have like I have a slightly different view on cheating, which is I don’t think that teachers are they’re not dumb. It’s not that they just don’t get it.

It’s that well there it is that they don’t get it, but it’s not that they don’t understand what their kids should or shouldn’t be doing. It’s I think it’s two things. One, the teachers are right are correct in feeling like their their kids are way ahead.

Like their students are a lot more effective at using language models than teachers are. And so, you know, teachers like there is there is scope for students using shortcuts and not necessarily using AI in a way that’s like, you know, generating productive struggle and building the sort of knowledge and and competencies that they need. But the solution unfortunately is not to ban it because you can’t ban it.

Yeah. Or or the the that’s not the only solution. Maybe that’s like a a temporary thing.

Maybe you have to do that. It’s longer conversation. But the solution is the teacher needs to to figure out how language models work and then start to adapt their learning.

And it’s just like, you know, I was just looking at research on you know, before and after the computer, students used to write on average like I think like half a page like of like long form writing per week. Mhm. And then after the computer that’s up to like, you know, three to five pages.

Yeah. It’s like three to five growth. So not quite like two to two to four pages, let’s say.

So you know with AI it could just be that the the maybe the volume and the sophistication of what they’re working on increases. It becomes more engaging. So I love that.

That’s that’s the but that’s what you’re getting at right is like this like the the opportunity for this technology to be like nurtured so that students can be empowered by it. But the other piece that I think and not all teachers are necessarily thinking about this, but I think a lot of them are, especially teachers that work in communities where there’s sort of like a big disparity between, you know, like like schools that are sort of on the fringe of, you know, urban and suburban parts of their community. Yeah.

And what they see is that not all the students are going home and getting access to the AI tools or have parents that are showing them. And if you start to adapt your assignments to be designed to to work in concert with AI, you’re sort of assuming that all the students have access. And that kind of brings me back to I know we’re at time.

I’d love to find more time with you. Dr. I see exactly where you’re going because it does that makes sense. It’s like that’s where like that’s Oh, it was you need to be there for like like Yeah.

Yeah. It’s like we’re repeating this cycle again. It’s the same thing with building virtual school.

It’s the same thing with building up online classes. It’s a well, if you build it, they will come. Maybe, right?

Maybe they will. If you build the capacity within the teachers, like from a training perspective, is it actually going to be something that is will be impactful to what school districts actually are measuring from an attendance, motivation, engagement, student achievement perspective, right? How does it align to those things?

Will it drive the outcomes that you need? So how do you encourage the capacity building right I hear you loud and clear I mean I yeah it it is we are you know it’s a different technology it’s a different conversation but it’s the same conversation that that part is interesting and we’ve got work to do yeah we do Dr. Kesha King, it’s been his pleasure. I I will track you down for for some more time.

Yeah. Hopefully, we intersect at one of the many spaces that we’re both going to be in. Yeah.

If not, you know, there’s always an opportunity to intentionally intersect and I’ll I’m happy to do that also.