Is College Still Worth It? A UPenn Trustee Answers (Sarah Morgenthau & Michael Barrett)

Yeah, with that welcome to aiEDU Studios interview series. We still have We don’t even have a name for this yet. I’m here with Sarah and Michael.

I’m going to actually give you a chance to introduce yourselves with the I Have a Dream Foundation, a nonprofit that it’s funny, I can’t even remember who connected me, but I had a chance to talk to folks on your team I think like a couple months ago now like like second half of 2025 and it was it was kind of amazing like how many just how many things were clicking in terms of just sort of like overall mission and like sort of like theory of change and this like very hands-on, you know, programmatic mindset. And so we were talking like how could we how could we sort of just start, you know, trying to connect these dots and and this is one of the the goals of this this interview series is bringing change makers you know, a broad definition of thought leaders, but also like change makers and people that are actually doing work and make sure that those perspectives are a part of this conversation about you know, AI and sort of just the future of of education. So Sarah, Michael, can can I’m going to I’m going to sort of give you a chance to introduce yourselves and you know, feel free to just sort of share, you know, how you what you’re doing with I Have a Dream and then also your you know, maybe how you got there.

Yeah, I know Alex, thanks so much for having us on. I’m Sara Morgenthau, I’m the President and CEO of I Have a Dream Foundation. I’ve been in this role for about 6 months, but it always felt as if this was the moment in time to do this.

Most of my career has been in public service. I’ve also been a lawyer. I served in the Obama and Biden administrations, but education has been a throughput throughout my life.

My mother was first generation immigrant to this country, a first in her family to go to college. And so it it was something that was always important. She truly lived the American dream and with public service and you know, my own three children and really you know, all of our all of our children.

I I I feel as if this is the moment as as things are changing so rapidly. And Sarah and Alex, thank you. My name is Michael Barrett.

I serve on the board of the I Have a Dream Foundation, the national board. And my career is is in banking and financial services. I spent 30 plus years working and living both in the United States and overseas.

And my passion for really working with students and and education platforms started a long time ago. Back to my days as an undergraduate student. And I I enjoyed being able to spend time with students and help them navigate their decisions that they have to make, help them get prepared for school.

And I’ve continued to do that. And I joined the foundation after I retired from a career in banking. And it’s been one of the most fulfilling things that I could do.

Every day I get up and I have the opportunity to think about what I can do to make a student’s opportunity that much more better. I also serve on the board of the University of Pennsylvania as a trustee and I’m on the executive committee. So I bring a perspective of working in higher education and that I think really helps me because I now understand when we talk about students and what they’re looking to do once they graduate from high school, I can think through how I can help them navigate that, given my roles at the university.

All right, Michael, that’s cool that’s cool that you actually have that. It’s like both sides of the equation almost. We will get into it, but I mean, Sarah, can you just I mean, just for our audience’s benefit, you can you tell us about like what does I Have a Dream do?

Yeah, you know, so I Have a Dream what we’re an education nonprofit. We work across the country in low-income communities. We work closely with Title 1 schools and also housing communities.

We have, you know, pillars if you will, which is, you know, the belief in long-term mentorship, in relationships, in social and emotional learning, first grade to first job, you know, skills-based career readiness are all, you know, enormously important as kids are navigating through both a really difficult education system and, you know, a tough journey, right, to being successful in school and in life. And those long-term relationships are really sort of at the crux of everything that you do. You know, we have to create, you know, that that soft landing, that base, if you will, for kids to be successful.

I I saw some statistic recently that said that kids who are in the lowest, you know, socioeconomic quadrant are only graduating college at 11%. You know, our reading and our math skills, you know, are tanking, and it means that, you know, the US is losing competitiveness, but it it starts, you know, really right at the crux of making sure that we meet these kids where they are. I’ve been influenced for many years.

My kids, when they were in high school, read the book The Other Wes Moore, and to me, you know, it’s all those little those little steps, right? And there’s so many times from first grade to first job where you can go off in the wrong direction. For viewers who haven’t read it, it’s about two men who are both named Wes Moore, who grew up in tough communities in Baltimore, and one went on to be the CEO of Robinhood and now the governor of Maryland, and the other to serve a life sentence in prison because he got, you know, involved and distracted by just a complicated community and, you know, was was arrested for for armed robbery, I think.

And and Wes Moore talks about, you know, the the mentorship, you know, the the small things that happened along the way, his mother sending him off to to to military school, and it makes you realize, and and I tell people this all the time, there’s so many times, you know, in all of our lives, when you can go off in the wrong direction. So, having that long-term relationship and those mentorships and having the ability to to check in throughout this really really hard journey is is really at the crux of I Have a Dream Foundation. One of the hard things about working in sort of like such an innovative space like AI, and there’s so much, I think, excitement and a lot of fear, but a lot of excitement as well, about the potential for this technology to, you know, support teaching and learning, and and everybody’s talking about, you know, like equity and like reaching underserved kids, but we were in like this immaculate It was actually a brand new building.

Huge floor-to-ceiling windows, like and the light was just sort of like the architecture sort of like sort of It was well designed. The light was like hitting the space in like a really beautiful way, and the HVAC was just working perfectly. And when you you know, when you go and visit the schools that we work with, it’s just It’s so stark.

And I think I think some people don’t necessarily realize like what the state of like being a kid in a Title I school And it’s I’m so curious if you could even just like help paint that picture and like when you maybe even using any stories you have from like kids that have been a part of your programs, like what are the types of supports that are still needed today? And, you know, I just assume that first folks that are listening aren’t necessarily you know, they don’t necessarily have access to a school like that. It might not really It might be hard to sort of close your eyes and picture it.

The thing about it is it’s it’s all these little things, you know, these check-ins, right? Raising expectations. You know, one of the things I I I didn’t mention as I was talking about, you know, all the things that I Have a Dream Foundation does is the promise of college scholarship and then other post-secondary pathways, right?

Because, you know, it’s not just college, but it’s also, you know, trade schools, it’s, you know, military, it’s apprenticeships, you know, all all of those things. And raising those expectations so that, you know, you you truly know, you know, kind of what’s out there. A couple of examples, too, which is this work is hard, right?

And and, you know, recently, in New York City, Columbia Business School and First Generation Investors are doing a financial literacy program for high school students. And Alex, you know, I leaned into this because this seemed like an amazing program, right? And it’s, you know, it’s it’s it’s 6 weeks, they all get $100 at the end of it.

Really learning some financial literacy skills. And the kids were resisting a little bit going cuz, you know, they’re kids, right? And they wanted to do sports or they wanted to hang out.

And there were two things that I realized on that. And I said, you know, who’s messing Who’s Who Who’s talking to the kids about this? Like, you know, how are we messaging the importance of this, right?

Which is that this is a good thing to show up for. Not only are you going to get skills, you’re going to put this on your resume, you’re going to get exposure, you know, to Columbia Business School. And so, I took the opportunity to really lean in and say, "You know what?

You guys got to show up for this." And I you know, I think it’s it’s it’s some of that structure and discipline all along the way that’s really important. And one other story and then, you know, Michael I know has got a lot to say about this, too, was we had a mock interview session in our offices several weeks ago with some college kids and I walked in and introduced myself and to said, you know, first of all, thanks for showing up. And by the way, you know, a lot of these kids, they were nervous about showing up and they also like had to run to another job afterwards, right?

And so, there was just a lot of things that, you know, that they were the kind of contending with. And I kept saying, "Thanks for showing up. You know, thanks for showing up." And then, I was, you know, just trying to explore a little bit and I saw one young woman and I could tell she was just, you know, about to she was so fearful, right?

Because again, the social and emotional learning the deficit, right? When you don’t have the those relationships and I just went over I gave her a hug and she burst into tears, right? So, this you know, this work is hard.

Yeah, you know, Sarah, I would second that in terms of the work that we do, it’s hard and we sometimes underestimate some of the thing the little things that matter. You know, Alex, you mentioned, you know, being in a at a conference in downtown San Francisco to very large, you know, new constructed building. When we go out and we spend time with the students, we lean in in these under-resourced communities and we are intentional about it.

Why? Because we know that that’s an area where we can do the most amount of good, and we want to try and provide the students and also the families those wrap-around services, which is what the foundation does, as kind of what we call our secret sauce. When I think about it, one of the things that that I that really resonates with me is students they just don’t have the access to a lot of the things that we just think about every day.

So, when you think about an under-resourced community maybe having access to computers or having access to coming into to buildings where they can see how companies really function day in day out. Walking and talking with people that have been there before and have done it. You know, understanding more of the concepts of how do you take what you may or hear and see in a textbook and actually see it real time.

Those are the kind of things that we’re trying to do with the program and start early enough so that we can actually help them fulfill their dreams. We call them dreamer scholars because we want to provide them with the right tools, the right mentoring, the right access so that their dreams can hopefully and potentially be fulfilled as they think about going from first grade to first job. And I’m sorry if you mentioned this, but how when were you founded?

Like how how long has I have I have a dream of doing this work? Yeah, so we’re we’re 45 years this year, and actually we had a an incredible opportunity a couple of weeks ago to ring the closing bell at the New York Stock Exchange to really reflect on this moment and to be, you know, at the heart of the business community, which we talk about the importance of everyone in this moment right now figuring out, you know, the workforce of the future, right? And and the business community is a big part of that.

And so we were you know we were pleased to be able to celebrate that. Michael and I were both there. We had some of the students with us and we had some of the the alumni with us too.

We’re happy to share some some footage of that because you know really wanted to to be there and show you know this is the workforce of the future. You know we’re sounding the alarm bells but also talking about the opportunity. And it was kind of cool too Alex because the market actually made history and went over 50,000 the day that we rang the the bell the closing bell and so I have said I Have a Dream Foundation needs to go back again to make sure that we keep pushing it up over 50.

What was it this past year? That was like in February right? We just did it a couple weeks ago.

Okay. Yeah. Oh yeah I’m looking at the Oh that’s so cool.

Yeah this is February 6th. Yeah. And the important thing about that I mean there’s two things that came out of that.

Number one is the 45 year run of the foundation. You know one of the things that I pledge that I really get excited about is that the foundation is sustainable. It’s been around and it’s been through a number of different cycles but at the end of the day it’s about the students.

It’s about the education and it’s about the mission. The other thing that I that I got from that event is just looking at the the eyes and the body language of the students. They were so excited to be out on the floor and so excited to be up ringing the bell and cheering and for them it was like they they’d never had access they’d never seen something like this.

Maybe they dreamt about it maybe they saw it on TV but for them to actually go down to Wall Street and be part of that experience that’s what makes this very special. That’s what makes this meaningful because I think and I hope some of those students will take into account what we did and what they were able to experience and let that be another motivation point for them as they think about what they’re studying and how what they’re doing day in day out matters and how they can create opportunities for themselves. Yeah, and Alex, I would just add to that too that it was a moment of reflection this 45 years and I I feel like I’m maybe I’m taking the lead from you on this, but when I talk about this was the image of the workforce of the future, right?

In 45 years, but it’s also a reminder to all of us that what are we going to do in the next 45 years, right? And here we are in this moment coming out of pandemic, coming out of one of the greatest, you know, isolation crises, if you will, which you know, is is just exacerbated, you know, by social media, by, you know, the skills of today and tomorrow changing so rapidly, right? I I know because I know you that you listen to the same podcast, you know, about AI vibing, which I listened to a few days ago, you know, hearing about, you know, tools that we can now use that have just come online in like the last couple of months, right?

You know, which which may mean, you know, that that certain, you know, engine software engineering careers that we all thought we should be doing are no longer going to be relevant, right? And so, as a foundation, we are really working also on making sure that our skills for these kids, you know, meet the moment and that we are getting them ready. And And that requires, you know, really collaboration, you know, from government, from from, you know companies from universities like University of of Pennsylvania you know thought leaders so that we can do that.

We’ve made you know a commitment you know to by 2030 to really make sure that our that that we along with others it’s not just the foundation are are are really focused on what are those what are those skills so that we can make sure our kids have it not just the ones in the foundation not just the dream kids but really as a society as a country we have to be laser focused on that. The other thing I would add in on that is when you take a look at again the 45 year history you know over the last several years the foundation has evolved. The mission of of educating students making sure they’re prepared for college or or or other types of trade schools has still remained the same but when we talk about how we go about making them being prepared when we when we talk about getting them exposure Sarah just mentioned you know the work that we’re doing around financial literacy and how we should be leaning in on that.

AI literacy is is is is just as important and for us it’s about how do we recognize that the importance of giving the students access to the different types of of areas around finance and around technology and around AI so that they have the opportunity to not be threatened by it but to embrace it to relish it and to be comfortable with it. One of the things that we are doing is this summer we are having a conference at the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia. We are bringing the students there to spend a week on campus and they’re going to get exposure to the students at the engineering school.

They’re going to get exposure to the instructors that teach AI and technology and STEM. They’re going to get exposure to instructors from the Wharton School of Business so they can understand about finance and business concepts. And the importance of that is again, letting them be on campus, letting them be exposed to other students in college, letting them be exposed to professors so that they have the opportunity to really understand what’s possible for them.

And make sure that they also understand and see where those concepts are and how important it is and how you can leverage that to build out a career. Yeah, I mean I’m just reflecting on 45 years. This is what 90 1981?

Or 80 81? You got it right Alex, 81. Yeah.

81. Yeah, that’s Eugene Lang started I Have a Dream. So It’s interesting cuz you were saying actually like that there’s there’s a lot more in common, to paraphrase, there’s a lot more in common with the message to kids today than there is different.

Which I I think I I think I agree with as well. How I mean how has like just the advice that you give kids changed if at all? Or or do you feel like it’s actually been relatively consistent?

I mean I can answer that and say I don’t I think the fundamentals are the same. I just think we need to make sure that we’re getting the message to all kids, right? And so you know, we we’ve talked about just that you know, I I talk about just a sort of a base if you will, right?

Of making of raising expectations, of making sure that they’ve got somebody to check in with, of the mentorships, of you know, even just the rigor, right? And the importance of showing up the career and and and and college, you know, post secondary readiness, you know, the exposure to the skill you know, you know, how do you write a resume? You know, how do you, you know, do your LinkedIn page?

Yes, you should show up for this financial literacy program. Yes, it’s really important and that’s why I kept saying, you know, you showed up. But but making sure that that, you know, those messages Look, I’m a mom of of of of three, you know, now, you know, grown young kids and I sometimes feel like I’m putting on my mom in chief hat, you know, because we need to to just say it the same way we would say to any kids, right?

That that it’s that all of these things are important and part of that is the is the mentorship and and showing the way. And the other thing I would say is the messages remain the same, but we have more examples that we can see real time in terms of how it continues to evolve. And what I say to students is I say the the same messages, but I say the pace has now quickened.

It’s now faster. You get to see real time things like technology, things like, you know, globalization, things like issues that that you can see on on a device, you know, on a mobile device that ordinarily you may have had to spend time in a in a school reading or hearing a lecture about it. You can now pull up that information real time on a device and get that much more information, that much more quicker and faster than before.

And with that pace, with that speed of access, it just means that students have to really be comfortable in being able to embrace where things are going. And Sarah and I spent some time earlier in the week talking to companies and we talked to one company that was was talking a lot about workforce development. And where the workforce is going to be in the future.

We want to make sure that we’re preparing our students to be eligible to be able to contribute in a meaningful way of where those industry sectors are going to be in the United States. So, when we think about our mission, the mission stays the same. The way that we go about it has more intentionality and we can look at examples of what we’re seeing now with companies making decisions to relocate to certain parts of the country to to drive more manufacturing.

Or we’re looking at of decisions being made by the government to look at how they’re going to make the US more competitive. And as a result of that, what does that mean? That means that we have to be preparing our students to be able to take those jobs and have the right skills and have the right intellectual curiosity to be able to be successful in those roles.

Yeah, and you know, if I can dovetail on you know, the the question you were asking Alex and and just where where Michael is going, right? Which is you’ve got two things going on here, right? Which is you know, absolutely, you know, we need to make sure that you know, as a country that we are creating the workforce of the future, that we’ve got that pipeline, right?

And that because things are changing so quickly, it really does take all of us to think about what what are those emerging growth industries and what are they going to look like and what are those you know, what are those actual skills and and how do we make sure that we have the pipeline, right? And that requires an inclusive pipeline. We can’t afford not to let you know, all kids in this country, you know, have that ability to you know, to to have those skills so that they they have a successful life.

You know, Arnie Duncan, you know, talks about if we let these kids fall through the cracks, you know, we’re all going to pay for it. It’s going to be expensive. They’re going to end up maybe, you know, where the other Wes Moore ended up.

But what I think we can’t forget, you know, in all of this, you know, sort of rapid technological change, you know, that’s just going faster and faster, you know, I I mentioned the, you know, the AI vibing and you know, just just how quickly things are moving, is that at the crux, the problem-solving, the critical thinking, the the long-term relationships, the social and emotional support, the the ability, you know, to to innovate, to work in diverse communities, collaboration, all of the things that really are the hallmark of what makes the United States of America great and a leader on the world stage, that we continue to to to you know, to to incubate and focus on those at the same time and parallel, you know, keeping up with these emerging and growth industries, so that they have the skills that they’re that are needed. Can we keep up? I mean, I I don’t know that I think even I think a lot of software companies are wondering if they can keep up.

Like it it feel like you mentioned like 3 months and it’s I mean, even Wait, when when when was it? When was the SaaS apocalypse? It was I wonder it was after February February 6th.

I think there’s like even after after that closing bell, and so it’s the entire industry now is like coming to terms with okay, there’s going to be a lot of change. And I think a lot of the software companies have recovered, which is sort of illustrates like sometimes we just assume that oh, you know, like the the the you know, industry just you know, knows what they’re doing and this is all about sort of like guiding students towards you know, what industry needs. I think right now even in industry they’re not really sure.

I think there are people who are like well, we’re not really going to need software engineers. I’ve heard that a lot, right? We don’t need to hire software engineers cuz the AI can do coding.

But then you actually kind of dig into it and it’s like well, no actually we we might need more engineers because the the demand for engineering is getting increased and and it might be more decentralized which could be where it’s going to be really valuable to have that but you also need durable skills. And there’s some who are saying, you know, we I mean nobody has any is doing any work and I think I I keep coming back to financial literacy, Michael because when you cuz cuz thinking about financial literacy is something that you would assume is so obvious. It’s like surely every kid by the time they graduate high school should you know, have had the opportunity to learn some of the basics about financial management and yet you know, it is I mean I’m sure you can attest to this in the schools that you were working with.

I mean it’s it’s not always the case that kids have that opportunity. And so I I’m curious about how you like if we think about the type of mentorship that I Have a Dream is able to provide you know, there’s you keep mentioning some of the more I’m not going to call them soft cuz I think that’s unfair. It’s not gratuitous enough.

It’s some of these like sort of supporting but also central like competencies. You mentioned critical thinking. You mentioned like the social emotional learning.

You mentioned like grit and resilience. Like showing up which is like discipline. It’s also like finding meaning and purpose.

And and a lot of that stuff is things that we don’t we don’t test for it. So so So I Have a Dream is providing that through through mentorship. Like if if the entire country was like, "Okay, well, what would it look like for us to like take what we’ve learned from I Have A Dream’s work and like scale the hell out of it?

Like what would be the thing like like the one thing that you would be pushing for? Like what is something that every kid should have an opportunity to do or what is something that every school or community should be putting at the top of their agenda?" Look, I I do think these relationships and the long-term relationships are important. I also believe that there you know, that the long-term piece is important, but you know, there are critical stages along the way.

And so, you know, really you know, any intervention can can you know, really move the needle. You know, as I said, you know, kind of earlier you know, we’re committed as a foundation. We’re not going to do this on our own.

We’re not going to solve it on our own, but we’re really committed to ensuring, you know, that by 2030 we are working with others to to make sure that our kids are having the skills that they need to to you know, to thrive in this world. And I think what we really need to do too is, you know, I gave a statistic about you know, 11 only 11% of those in the you know, the lowest socioeconomic you know, quadrant are are graduating. We got to move that, you know?

I mean, we got to make that 40% at least. It’s you know, the the highest socioeconomic income, you know, is is is something like, you know, 55 57%, right? And so, we need to move that.

I don’t think it has to just be college. I think it could be, you know, many different post-secondary pathways, but we need but we need to ensure that and we’re can you know, we’re we are committed as a foundation to doing that. And I think that you know, the data will show you that 98% of students that go through the program graduate.

You know, they graduate from high school and they go on to pursue opportunities, whether that’s in you know, college, trade school or other types of of pathways. And the foundation has served over 20,000 students over those 45 years. So, when I think about what what matters most, it’s around that engagement.

It’s around the programming. The program is is it’s every day five it’s five days a week after school. There’s programming on Saturday.

So, we want to try and do spend time with the students. Let them understand here are the concepts around math. You mentioned earlier financial literacy.

It starts first with really understanding the math concepts and we start that in first grade, kindergarten. As we’re now talking about the evolution of of the model, you know, we’re spending more time now developing labs, what we call dream labs, AI dream labs because we know the importance of having students get access to hardware equipment, basically computers, desktops. Being able to be in in in a in a in an environment where they can maneuver on the computer screen and they can ask questions.

They can prompt ChatGPT or co-pilot or perplexity. These kind of of of of access to these types of of tools just adds to their confidence, makes them feel more comfortable, let makes them feel like they can be part of what society everybody else is going through. So, we are all in in terms of how we think about preparing the students and giving them that access and giving them that tools.

But, we also realize that it’s also part of the emotional learning. When we talk about that we want to try and make sure they could have that that comfort level around asking questions and being curious or that they have that self-confidence about speaking up and participating and being able to to really articulate who they are and where they’re from. Those kind of things are very important and they play a role in terms of how you then go all the way through from first grade to 12th grade because you’re starting to develop who you are as an individual and you’re making conscientious decisions about am I going to participate in the the foundations program after school and be be present and be active and engage or am I going to fall off and then try and not go back.

And we obviously don’t want the latter, we want the former and we’re we’re really glad and excited about the fact that what we’ve done has shown positive results, that they do graduate and they do go on and they lead meaningful lives. You know, Alex, I think we should make history together right now and say that you know, we need to have a more inclusive education system. We can’t afford, right?

We know what the crisis is. We can’t afford to let, you know, kids fall through the crack. And and and part of that is because we have to be laser focused on ensuring that we have the pipeline for the workforce of the future.

This is a matter of national security. This is a matter of, you know, US competitiveness. We are seeing our country in you know, lose pace, be outpaced, right?

By by Asia and others. US universities are going, you know, down in the in global rankings. We, you know, and we need to make sure that we have the jobs for for the future industries as as they’re growing.

You know, I say we’ve done 20,000 kids and their families. That doesn’t even take into account, you know, all those who are paying it forward, right? And and we see that over and over.

We have dream scholars who are back, you know, teaching. We have you know, folks who are are are are are continuing that message, right? And paying forward, you know, the the the great benefit and resources that they’ve had to.

We’ve got to do 2 million kids. We’ve got to do 2 million kids. We we we have to have it be more inclusive and we can’t afford to let kids fall through the cracks.

I mean, I I totally agree. And I’m just actually brought back to the a I don’t I don’t know if this was intentional or sort of just like a really kind of fun coincidence, but you you’re talking about ringing the the bell at the stock exchange. And it’s sort of like, you know, it’s ringing in opportunity and they’re sort of like all the the potential to come in that day, but then there’s also, you know, there’s like you talked about alarm bells.

I’m struck by that. Like, I feel like the bell is ringing and it’s like a combination of alarm bells, but also you know, ushering in sort of like the next generational like technology revolution. How are you thinking about the role that AI plays here?

And feel free to hit that. I mean, there’s a lot of different angles, but I mean, just just sort of curious like tactically when it comes to like the delivery of your work or the way that you see kids learning or using the tools, like are there any examples that you’re particularly excited about or maybe that are raising your eyebrows? Yeah, yeah, I mean, we we we mentioned earlier AI labs, which is, you know, you bring the students into a classroom and there are desktops there and there are is an instructor in the front and they’re going through and learning about navigating and asking the right questions and getting information real time to solving problems.

For us, we think that we need to be part of that solution and that’s why we’re doing this because we think as we talked about earlier, how do we prepare these students to be they have the right skills to be active participants in the workforce and we know it starts early on. So, one of the things that we’re doing as part of our overall foundation and strategic pillars is a focus on getting comfortable with the technology. So, what we do what our thoughts are is to create AI dream labs as being part of our go-to-market and how we work with our students and faculty members and teachers and school school and city council members by saying we want to be part of this and we’re going to help to drive that by incorporating that into our programming so that it becomes a fundamental go-to-market approach of what we can bring to the students that we touch.

I I wonder if you encounter this question, I’m sure your team does. Like, should we still be counseling kids to go to college? So, you know, we’ve talked about that intentionally and as you as I’ve said, you know, the the story going to this foundation started, you know, with a promise of college scholarship and you know, we also have college savings accounts, which is again about expectations, right?

Which is, you know, when you when you actually have it there, it provides, you know, that goal. But I think that there are many pathways post-secondary and we’re talking about that, you know, the discourse politically, I think it’s pretty uniform that there are many ways to be successful in in life and in in career and and we are you know very much aligned with that. We actually just recently changed our language and our mission statement really to to reflect that because I think that that’s that’s where we are today.

I mean Alex, I I will tell you that I mentioned at my at my introduction that I serve on a board at the higher education level at a university. You know, even at the university level we are evaluating that as we speak. You know, we’re saying how do we ensure that we understand the diversity of students and the diversity of learning options.

So for us, when we went to school, it was you show up in the classroom, you attend college, you go through that four-year, five-year experience. Now it’s should you have an online curriculum? Should you do weekend classes?

Should you do a two-year associate degree? Should you think about going directly to a trade school? Should it be a four-year institution?

So there are so many different options out there and I think all of us would benefit from having a much more diverse set of options out there than just saying everyone should go to college because I don’t think it’s college is for everyone. I think there’s so many different options out there that are available and also by the way, let’s not forget the cost-benefit. You know, as as as tuition continues to to skyrocket, we also have to think about and be sensitive to and empathetic to families and what’s affordable and making those right decisions based upon a circumstance for a family and based upon what a specific person’s actual dreams are, what they want to do from a career perspective.

Unfortunately, there isn’t like a short answer. I think it’s good that you didn’t just try to come up with like some pithy response because it’s like it’s very complicated. It’s like it depends on well, what do you mean by college?

Are you talking about taking out $200,000 in loans to go to a you know, tier two ranked private school just because you want to have the prestige of a private school? That is very different from, you know, going to an an you know, a state school that, you know, whether I had whether they have, you know, need-based scholarships or maybe it’s just more affordable or maybe you start in community college and as you said sort of laterally. And there’s like I think lots of pathways, but the the biggest isn’t thing I’m hearing is and you use a specific language, but I’m going to paraphrase it, but like just creating the the the the the paradigm of of like having a thing you’re striving for.

And that’s where I feel like I’m not ready to say I wouldn’t recommend for kids to go to college because like when I’m asked that question, I’m like, well, the answer is we really don’t know, but you need to have something that you’re shooting for and college is it checks a lot of boxes, right? You’re going to learn a lot of stuff. You’re going to be doing hard things and navigating, you know, complex systems and you’re going to be dealing with people and like building people skills.

And it’s also a way of signaling that you’ve done all those things. And are there other pathways that check all those boxes? Like I think for sure and and that’s where maybe there’s like an interesting conversation around trades.

And even like when you mention community college and associate’s degrees, it’s like maybe that’s actually strategic if you don’t know what’s coming, if there’s going to be a lot of change, you know, having a two-year degree that you can stack on top of let’s say other other learning that you can adapt based on you know, how things develop. I I I feel like that could make sense, but I can see where the mentorship is so critical there. Because like having someone who’s sort of guiding you through that process, I feel like if the three of us can’t quite come up with like a a clear answer, it’s like how how the heck are kids who Who high school dealing with all this stuff that you talked about, supposed to figure this out for themselves.

Alex, I I I really agree with you and I think part of it like let’s just like we’re all human beings, right? I mean I always tell, you know, I I talk about imposter syndrome and, you know, no matter you know, where you are in life or how important or not important, you know, you may be, you know, we’re all you know, we’re all still in high school or maybe younger, right? And I just think the importance, you know, I talk about expectations of possibility, right?

Of a future is so important and, you know, where that lands, I don’t know, you know, whether it’s, you know, college, community, trade schools, you know, you know, other, you know, in an in an apprentice, just in a really cool job. I think you know, just the feeling that you are moving through, you know, life and you’re excited about it is to me what’s at the crux of all of this and making sure that we are catching those kids, you know, early and often if we can, you know, and and and and you talked about, you know, what would we like to see for I Have a Dream Foundation and I truly believe and we’ve got the numbers to show it that you know, the impact and the outcomes are great and we need to make sure that we’re doing that as a bigger scale as we can. You know, the other the other thing that sometimes people overlook is the students come from under-resourced communities and what does that mean?

They may be the first generation that considers going to a trade school or a community school or a college or university. So, what does that mean? That means that day in day out, they may not necessarily have that access or exposure to someone in their immediate family that can provide them with a lot of those answers.

That’s where we try to step in. And we talked a lot about the mentoring and the networking and the fact that we start so early because we want to try and be not a replacement, but a supplement. So, we want to try and make sure that we’ve got people on the board and people that are part of the organization that have various different careers, various different education levels, but at the same time they can play a role in helping the students understand the importance of following education because it can lead you so many different opportunities down the road.

I mean, I guess if you could just tell like one thing about like what you need to bring these like supports like to your communities. I mean, there’s part of the challenges you kind of described is like so much that goes into it, but if you think it when you think about the the impact that you were striving to have sorry, you mentioned like 2 million kids. Yeah, like what is like that one barrier that whether it’s philanthropy or or other leaders like that could help if not entirely lift it for you, at least like, you know, help help you over.

Look, I think it’s it’s kind of how the arc of of the conversation Alex that we’ve had, right? I mean, you have the crisis. We’ve got we’ve got the numbers, right?

Of showing how many are falling through the cracks, how many are not getting this opportunity. And I think that in this moment in time, you know, with so much change, so much disruption happening, both, you know, we we’re talking about technology, you know, the disruption and the noise which is compounded by, you know, social media, misinformation, all of all of these things, right? Are are making it you know, even more compelling and even more of a need to to you know, to come you know, together, right?

And and and try to to lift up some of these kids. It’s a it’s an awareness of the crisis and you know, sort of a come to you know, Jesus moment. And sure, you know, it’s it’s it’s it’s a it’s an awareness, a call to action, and also a moment to think about the opportunity, right?

And I think, you know, we talked about the closing bell ceremony and it both was ringing the alarm bells, if you will, for the crisis, but also, you know, 45 years of opportunity and and 45 years moving forward. This is going to require all of us. The foundation is committed to working with the business community, with foundations, with philanthropy, with you know, government, you know, on the federal, on the city, on the state level.

It’s it’s about resources, and it’s and it’s some, you know, really hard thinking. I mean, Alex, I think you’ve said, too, like, how how are we going to keep up, you know, with this rapid change? And that is, you know, the foundation plays a role in that, but there’s going to be a lot more that’s going to be at play a role in it, too.

I mean, got to bring in our thought leaders and our universities and you know, companies who are able to to to to move more quickly, too. So, I see this as you know, something that all of us have to take seriously and it’s really a whole of society effort so that we can you know, remain strong and and so that we can make sure that all of our kids have the resources they need and the opportunities that they deserve. Michael, anything that you want to close with?

No, Sarah’s captured it really well and I would emphasize the fact that she talked about all of us. At the end of the day, it’s about collaboration. It’s about creating this ecosystem.

You know, we try very hard to go out and talk to other foundations and go out and talk to state and local government and go out and talk to corporate partners because at the end of the day, we we we think we we want to be part of the solution, but we also know there’s strength in numbers. We know we can drive more of an impact if we have more people that are collaborating together as opposed to try to do things individually. So, for us, it’s about scale, it’s around impact, and it’s around sustainability.

And those are the kind of things that are very critical to us. And we recognize that we can’t do it by ourselves. So, hence, we spend a lot of time talking about the things that we have done, but then also being welcome and open to creating these these these these partnerships, these collaborations because we know that we can do much more if we if we do it together.

Ah, that’s a really good closing. All right. Well, thank you again and also just thank you to the I Have a Dream team for all their help prepping for this and you know, we were super impressed when our team got a chance to meet with your folks and there’s a lot I feel like we want to learn from you.

I mean, I’m sure you feel the same maybe you know, when it comes to AI, but you know, our our experience time and time again as we would do work in title one schools is that, you know, AI is often not even the second or third biggest challenge that they have and like the humility of going in and understanding that and not feeling like this is just the center of the universe and I feel like you’re really living what that looks like. So, thank you again for making the time. Now, Alex, thank you.

We were grateful for that for the opportunity and and your questions were were really great. Thank you, Alex. Thanks, Michael.